Not so firm afterall

vincent · Joined: 22 Jul 2007 Posts: 3

I decided to see if I could buy some pieces that I thought were too high priced. The sellers had their ads marked ''firm'' after the price, but I went ahead and sent them an email asking if that was really their best price. Of the 8 emails I sent out 2 have not been answered, 2 declined to reduce the price, 1 came back with a nasty rejection and 3 offered a price reduction. So I guess not everyone is so firm afterall. You won't get good deals unless you ask for them.

Dave · Joined: 14 Mar 2008 Posts: 70

I think most people and dealers would be happy just to get there money back on there stuff.Just because of the way things are right now with the economy.I truely believe that the prices of this stuff will start to fall.Because not as many people are buying now or in the future.Theres no harm in asking for a better deal.Best regards.

Combat Relics · Joined: 14 Jul 2007 Posts: 149

I think everybody gets lucky and finds a bargain once in a while. It is nice and it is a thrill. It is not, however, a right. If all a person will buy is bargains, they can likely expect a very small collection gotten over a span of very many years.

In this field of collecting, you end up with an assortment, and the importance and quality of your relics, depends on many factors.

Getting everything cheap is not, in my opinion, near the top of the 'most important factor list'

In 1968 I could have filled my room with nice helmets for $10-$15 each. in fact most daggers were $15-$25.
First class cased Iron Crosses were $25 in 1975, as was an SS buckle.

I bought 5 Panzer Wraparound tunics from a guy in 1981 for $250 each... I guess I was smart not to wait for the market in extremely rare and fine historical tunics, to collapse. Now they are $5000+ IF you can even find an original for sale anywhere.

Eric Dolan said;
'$650 for a German paratrooper helmet? That is ridiculous, I would NEVER PAY THAT!!!' in 1985.
I am betting he is sorry today, that he never bought the next 100 that came to market for between $600 and $900... after all they start at $4500+ now.

Still these things all seemed to be too expensive to some buyers back then ... exactly as now.
This mantra is nothing new, it is the complaint and wish of those who want the market to change for them. Same then, Same Now.

Even having 2 grand cash handy, full knowledge and readiness to buy, did not aid me to acquire the ,Der Fuhrer' cuffband for $1999.00 yesterday.
I was too slow, I wish I had seen it earlier, it lasted a few minutes on the site before it sold!

I congratulate him, I have searched for that Cufftitle for 15 years!

If anybody wants to keep paper money over relics, remember you end up with only what you actually acquire. Not what you wish you had bought when you actually had a chance. What is your goal in collecting? It is important to have a goal and a plan to achieve it.

Combat Relics · Joined: 14 Jul 2007 Posts: 149

Collectors usually know the real market value of what they own, and the prices are set to get buyers interested.

Generally if it is too inexpensive a mistake has been made in pricing , or is about to be made by the purchaser!

If folks think German WW2 is expensive now, wait only 40 more years! Here it is, 60+ Years after the war, and it is on TV almost constantly in some form.

Many thousands of books have been authored regarding this war and its historical impact. It is arguably the single most far reaching and impacting event in world history, and it happened practically yesterday.

Compare the prices to USA Civil War and you will be stunned. The prices are far higher and the impact on history is far less as far as the rest of the globe is concerned!

USA Items, Flight Items, Japanese items, Old West, Guns, .... tell me in what area of collecting, where real VINTAGE RELICS of some kind are gathered and traded, have prices declined? Pretty much NONE of them.

Now what category has consistently outperformed many of the most solid of investments, as far as increase of value? The answer is... the stuff from the guys who almost took over the world.

Strangely, the rest of the world including our former enemies also value this stuff at these real world prices! And they are paying for the stuff too!

So best advice is... Get what you can, the prices are only going up!

And if ANYBODY wants to sell their original WW2 items for stupidly cheap, Please offer them to me first! I am not worried about the cash value plummeting.

Dave · Joined: 14 Mar 2008 Posts: 70

I think you are right .To some point. To the big welthy collectors things will stay or go up. But only items like the realy big ticket items like Hats, Helmets,Tunics,cuff tittles and such.These guys dont realy care about the the small stuff like armbands,Metals,bayonets,sport shirt eagles.You know Small ticket stuff.So they dont buy it.If the smaller collector has to put $100.00 bucks a week in his gas tank he wont buy it ether.So these items I think will go down.I now I am haveing trouble selling stuff. Can you kinda see what I mean? This is just my opinoion.Best regards.

Combat Relics · Joined: 14 Jul 2007 Posts: 149

Yeah Dave, That aspect will often come into play for lots of folks. Millions of us are being squeezed by the economy enough, that we have to decide what to buy when there is not enough money to cover it all.

Even many well employed Americans, are not immune to that. People tend to spend at the limit of their ability to afford. Or even spend themselves into spiraling debt (Just like the saints and heroes we 'elect'), trying to purchase something that will finally make them feel good.

Often, money woes can be a lifestyle thing as well. The TV has convinced us we need all the crap they want to sell. We, like suckers, will buy about anything if we think it will make us happier, thinner, more popular etc.

Do we really need to eat at restaurants often? Need a new car? a motorhome? A jet ski? a huge new house? Does the purchasing and upgrading ever slow and leave some extra cash in your pocket? Only if we control our addiction to consumerism.

If we can overcome need, and have reliable perspective, we can alter anything in our lives. We can discover if we have the capacity to make serious collecting of any category a feasible reality.

Some collectors will cut way back on retail spending and make do with things they have for a lot longer. Some will buy 'on the cheap' at yard and garage and estate sales. (Of course gas and time are factors) The good thing about that, is that prices are cheap, and you can eliminate a lot of NEW RETAIL store spending. Sometimes you can find things to resell on craigslist or even find relics.

If you are having trouble selling items you could try listing them on the site, or on craigslist in your city.

It has never been easy for a normal Joe to afford to collect. This stuff was cheap at the very beginning but the rest of merchandise was cheaper then too. Wages were lower, but purchasing power was better then.

The best way to acquire relics, is through a network of sources. Local ones are the easiest to acquire and keep on top of.

It may take years to really start seeing a pile of good stuff, but a strategy and plan that evolves and is applied will get you the results you seek.

Always ASK for the relics at sales, they will not be out in plain sight. Always get THEIR information if they do not want to sell right then, because they will NEVER call you!

Make sure the estate sale people, the auctioneers, the antique dealers and the gun show people in your region know about your collecting and how to reach you when they find relics. They will need to LIKE YOU to remember to call you, so be a pal!

Research veteran resources in your region. An ad in a VFW, Legion, or DAV magazine or newspaper can yield an occasional treasure.

and last... If you buy directly from the VETERAN HIMSELF, PAY HIM A VERY FAIR PRICE...HE DESERVES THE MONEY... I think of it as owed dues to the Freedom Club.

Good luck with all of it... it is a rocky road out there.

The Thicket · Joined: 17 Jul 2007 Posts: 86 Location: Right Here.

Great topic, many valid points noted, since I have been at this crazy what ever it is / hobby for well over 45 years now, I can say I have seen it all! Many collectors want the rhetoric thats tossed out by some dealers as something more than what it is. If it starts as BS its still only BS in the end, no pun...

Lets face it some dealers PUMP up the spin and prices, yet really whats a fair value. If you have an item that few can ever hope to acquired its the very nature of the beast to get as much as you can. I have never seen prices fall, hold steady for a few years yea, sure thats true, but fall? Never!

Folks even common items have gone up in value by 100's in the last 40 years. Back in the 1960's you could buy a simple 2nd Class IC for as little as for FREE and as much as $2.50, I recall a guy at a gun shop near where I grew up saying he was being robbed when he bought a Nazi Navy flag and two SS belt buckels for $6.00.. That was around 1969, now whats a Nazi Navy flag selling for by its self, $500.00 and up, SS Belt buckels are an easy $500.00 and up..

Folks will always be complaing about prices, and prices will always be going up year after year. I see it, and have seen it.

I got a few absurd emails from a guy about one of my daggers being as he stated; " OVER HYPED and OVER PRICED." Well perhaps it is a bit of both, but really where can I find one thats like it for less??

He wrote back top inform me that a dealer who has overgraded and over hyped for years had a few daggers that were priced less than mine, can we look at them as being apples to apples, NO!!
Why? O ne was a plain old humped up dagger. Yes a nice job was done to fool the collector but still way off the mark.
One other was an out right POS, so are these really apples to apples?

YOU all know the answer is NO!

So with that information, if you get a chance to own something that is both RARE and Beautiful and the price seems high today, use the method of growth used by big named dealers, these items grow at 10% per year as to what they say, so that means that in just 7 .5 years what you paid today will have grown to twice what you paid.

Now really thats not as true as it may seem, as I have seen items sell for what was noted as BIG money and the same items have gone as much as 3X's the price in 7 years.

Its a crap shoot, so buy what you can afford, buy what YOU like, enjoy it and perhaps in 10 years you will make big money.

Dave · Joined: 14 Mar 2008 Posts: 70

Yes you are correct. Things have gone up and up and up.But as history has shown us the markets do crash. It may not be to long befor ours does.

Combat Relics · Joined: 14 Jul 2007 Posts: 149

I can wait and hope things will get a little cheaper or I can collect.

If I wait, at what point in time, and at what price will I believe it is as cheap as it will get?

Will I buy then or will I be such a tightwad that I wait till it is too late?

If prices rise will I wait again for them to fall?

I mean REALLY! What kind of mindset is this to collect historical relics by? Maybe Beanie Babies or Star Trek figures, but this field is full of sucessful serious men.

Anyone who cannot deal with the REALITY of the marketplace, might wish find a category they can actually afford to collect. It would be wise to ingore wishing and hoping the tide will change, to suit their personal financial situation.

This is how the market is, it is reality. I recommend dealing with the situation as it exists for tens, if not hundreds, of thousands, of collectors.

Either a person will acquire, or not. I choose to be active.

lucky7 · Joined: 23 Jul 2007 Posts: 6

I agree that it never hurts to try. I recently went fishing and sent emails to a bunch of advetisers asking them what their best price was. You would be surprise how many were willing to come down. Made a couple of buys. You won't get good deals unless you ask for them. Laughing

Dave · Joined: 14 Mar 2008 Posts: 70

Yes this is what im talking about.No harm in asking.Sellers need to move there items.They will come down some times.Dealers dont like to hear about hard times ,it herts there buissnes.I used to get $100.00 for an armband now I have a hard time getting $50.00 to $60.00.If someone asks me for a better price I give it to them.

The Thicket · Joined: 17 Jul 2007 Posts: 86 Location: Right Here.

Don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with asking if you can get a few bucks off.
We all want a good deal, so a way of doing such is if everyone walks away happy then thats a good deal.

I know that items I have found and kept were either rare or had condition that was UNMATCHED.
But lets face it am I going to just give away an item that is in super condition for 50% off? Or so rare that I have seen but a hand full over the years if that? Why would I ? Would YOU?

We all know the old saying, when your selling you want the most, when buying you want to pay the least. So again when everyone walks away happy that a good deal.

Combat Relics · Joined: 14 Jul 2007 Posts: 149

Here is what one seller has on his site regarding availability of good stuff and prices, ... versus demand and ability to restock!

It echoes some observations I have posted in the last year, here on our forums!

Date Added 16/7/08

IT CANNOT HAVE PASSED YOUR NOTICE THAT EVERY LIST I PRODUCE HAS LESS AND
LESS ITEMS TO OFFER, AND THE CHOICE AND AVAILABILITY ESPECIALY OF THE EARLY QUALITY ITEMS HAS DROPPED DRAMATICALY. WHAT HAS BEEN NOTICEABLE IS THE INCREASE IN THE PRICES WORLDWIDE.
THE DEMAND FOR GOOD ORIGINAL MATERIAL HAS NOT STOPPED, BUT THE SUPPLY CONTINUES TO DRY UP THUS CAUSING A SHORTAGE AND EVER MORE EXPENSE.

ANYONE BUYING FROM ACROSS THE WATER EITHER IN EUROPE OR THE USA WILL HAVE FOUND THAT THEIR MONEY DOES NOT BUY A GREAT DEAL, AND THE £ STERLING (IN THE CASE OF EUROPE AND THE EURO)IS ON ITS KNEES.

SADLY THERE IS NO WHERE ON THE PLANET THAT ORIGINAL THIRD REICH MILITARIA CAN BE PURCHASED CHEAPLY, AND IT IS BECAUSE OF THAT SADLY I AM FORCED TO INCREASE THE PRICES OF NUMEROUS ITEMS ON THIS AND FORTHCOMING LISTS.

THE BANKS AND BUILDING SOCIETIES WHILE INCREASING YOUR MORTGAGE, HAVE CUT THE INTEREST ON YOUR SAVINGS, AND CASH IN THE BANK IS EARNING YOU VERY LITTLE.

AS AN INVESTMENT THE COLLECTING OF GOOD ORIGINAL THIRD REICH MILITARIA HAS NEVER BEEN STRONGER,THIS ALSO HAS NOT GONE UN NOTICED BY SOME INVESTORS AND FOREIGN COLLECTORS WHO ARE BUYING UP MATERIAL AS IT IS SEEN AS CHEAP IN THE UK DUE TO THE VALUE OF THE POUND STERLING. WHAT MAY SEEM EXPENSIVE TODAY MAY BE UNOBTAINABLE IN A COUPLE OF YEARS TIME AS ITEMS DISAPPEAR.

So Fellas, pay attention! I am not the sole person noticing the items have not hit the limit of their perceived value.

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