Bob Treend
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Jul 2007
Posts: 153
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 Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:57 pm Post subject: Eastern European Militaria Dealers / Collectors |
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Last evening I send out a newsletter and addressed the problem of Eastern European militaria dealers and their fakes. I fully expected to get a response to this and was not disappointed. It's no surprise that many of you agree with my assessment of them and I have reprinted most of these below. I left the author's name off because I didn't get their permission to use it. I also (not surprisingly) received some emails from Eastern Europe. Amazingly, some collectors there actually agreed with me. I feel bad for the few good guys over there, they're taking the consequences of the actions of others. They're like innocent bystanders... and we all know what happens to innocent bystanders. It unfortunate that to protect ourselves from some we have to avoid all.
Of all the responses I received the standout was from Matjaz Fritz. (I didn't even realize he was still on the mailing list) I'm sure many of you know who he is, he's been a subject in this forum and every other militaria forum because of his dishonest dealings. I wish I could reprint his email here but it is so full of curses and obsenities that I can't do it. I couldn't even figure a way to edit it, it's that nasty. I'll just say that his email is an insight into his personality showing a lot of anger, a hatred for Americans and contempt for all of us. You would have to be nuts to get involved with this guy.
Here's some of the responses I received.
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One of the reasons why I gave up collecting militaria was because of all the fakes. Even some "reputable" sellers have told me the items I bought from them are fakes when I've tried to sell them back to them a few years later. I came to the conclusion that I was wasting my money. The suspicion is so great that every item must be viewed as a fake until proven otherwise. Proof is an expensive and difficult thing to maintain. I know that around 95% of my militaria is genuine and I know exactly which items, but I am sure if I ever tried to sell them I would virtually have to give them away.
Indian artefact collectors in the US have a good saying: ''If you found it yourself then it is real, if you bought it from somebody else then chances are it is fake.''
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It's true.
I moderate at the forums, and can tell you, alot of problems due come out of Eastern Europe. We have an idea of who's who, but even tracking their Internet Protocal addresses can be tricky because they use proxy software, which hides, masks and changes their IP address, making tracking them that much more difficult. What i've found to be useful is communication between forum staff. I keep in contact a few others whom I trust and respect. Some of the forums I won't even waste my time with since they themselves have a long history of being involved with known fakes, with changing names, and committing otherwise moreally reprehensible acts, and often illegal acts. Those people from those forums are shunned, and that's just the way it is.
Tracking the bad guys from Eastern Europe is tough..but word gets around. I limit my business, and won't buy from anyone over there unless it's someone I know. I am even reluctant to sell to buyers in the East, since there is little recourse for theft, lost mail, and liars. I've heard of some guys saying they never received an item, only to demand a refund, and then it turns out, they've had the item all along. Damn crooks. Not all, but enough to give Eastern Europeans a bad name and turn off alot of collectors.
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yes, there're some honest dealer in Eastern Europe , but you may never encounter him because of your generalizing a problem (which does exist).
This makes me think back to the mid-70s when in my country someone rumored that all the crap came from the States. When I became acquainted with the phoneys then being marketed in the USA and started having contacts with US collectors, I quickly realized that those rumors were bullshit most of the times.
I have dealt with people from Eastern Europe and got what they offered: genuine pices were genuine pieces, repros were repros. Either they like me or they do not like Americans or your website drew the unwanted attention of the most unscrupolous ones (who certainly exist).
If there are crooks at West and at East , you may consider someone in the middle as well. What about Germans? ... I strongly discourage people form having contacts with the Krauts, they are pretty unreliable even in other spheres of commerce (I speak also from my 15-year professional experience with Germans) . Actually I did meet some really nice German people, they were the --- on vacation in this country .
I have "known" you since the good old days of Der Gauleiter and appreciate the even-mindedness and the normality of your site. Please keep it that way: never has prejudice elevated people.
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My name is ---- from Bucharest, Romania (Eastern Europe you may say). I am a guest of your site for quite some time. I hope my message finds you well.
I completely agree with your comments towards incoming fakes, irrespective where they are coming from. However, kindly note that such labeling will considerably diminish any credibility for an Eastern European like myself trying to make a good deal by courtesy of your website.
Therefore, please (i) do not advice your honest fellow Americans or any other nationality by all means not to respond to anyone from Eastern Europe, and (ii) take precautionary actions on a case by case basis.
We all, Eastern Europeans included, use your site because (i) it provides the degree of a guarantee for authenticity we are comfortable with, and most importantly (ii) we DO NOT KNOW each other. Otherwise, it would have been no need for your web platform.
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Dear Sir,
The tone of your letter is somewhat insulting. Obviously you , as so many Americans, have little or no knowledge of Finnish military history nor European political history . I suggest you google the name Siilasvuo Hjalmar or the Finnish Winter War for an easy start.
Your odds are not for problems on my part..... you just lost an opportunity.
(I'm still trying to figure out what Finnish military history has to do with this... B.T.)
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They have just about ruined the hobby. I don't see many of the younger
people at shows. The dealers charge prices that are way beyond the
reach of the Middle class. Just look at what ----
charges! The fakes are a BIG turn off to collectors. Collectors are
afraid to buy anything. Is it real or not? Even the big dealers get
caught selling fakes. I could tell you horror stories. I have been
collecting for years and am now getting out of the hobby. Want to buy
a Nazi helmet?
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Thanks for the info man. Your sentiments about the eastern europeans is almost unanimous. I get that feeling all the time i see them with two posts and trying to sell a bunch of fakes. Sorry for that 1% of people from there that are actually good guys but we do not have a way to distinguish them. Cheers
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I would not want your babysitting job for Bill Gates money! I don't know how you do it. I have been collecting for 30 years and I have over 50 different unique collections, 3rd Reich is just one of them and I have 2000 plus items in that collection. It is a well known fact among all my collecting pals that WWII German stuff is by far the most treacherous gear to collect. A well known author on the subject once shared an email exchange with me after we battled for an item on Ebay back in 99 when you could find good treasures there. He told me that over 70% of all 3rd Reich collectibles are post war fakes, repros, replicas, bastards, marriages, touch ups and restorations. I started collecting fakes and repros back then to help educate myself and others. I have hundreds of items and many of them could fool even seasoned collectors.
You are so right about East European stuff. I can't imagine the shenanigans you've got to deal with. You sincerely deserve an award for your endless babysitting and your positive attitude whilst doing so remains upbeat, polite and yet firm with a great degree of patience. You're doing a fine job and the site is one of the best sources for Militaria and research material pertaining to it. I know that bright collectors and honest ones would agree. That's all that matters. Keep up the good work |
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