Unusual HJ 188/36

torino · Joined: 15 Nov 2007 Posts: 10

I just veteran acquired a most unusual HJ. It is marked on the reverse with a double circle RZM and underneath that is the code 188/36. It has a motto. I have no doubts whatsoever regarding its authenticity. I have seen SS daggers marked with the same number dated 35 and SS flashes and also seen bayos marked 188/35 but I have never seen an HJ marked in this fashion. Not long ago Wittmann had an SA dagger marked with a code and year which was the 2nd one I had seen like that. Has anyone ever seen HJs marked this way before? Thanks

daggernut · Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Posts: 12

I don't recall seeing one marked just like that, but I don't think it's anything unusual or a mystery. Makers who made bayonets and daggers most likely would have made HJ knives as well.

torino · Joined: 15 Nov 2007 Posts: 10

I think is is most unusual to find an HJ marked this way. I suspect that prior to uniformization of the RZM some makers were in a quandry over the regs and popped out a few HJs thinking they were supposed to be marked this way. I suspect it is ultra rare although probably not one of a kind. The RZM 1198/40 Sa dagger Wittmann had was a little more strange in my opinion because the RZM had been going for years. It could have just been a mistake they just overlooked and went ahead and sold since the war was on but I suspect that due to its condition it was something picked from the factory after occupation because that SA looked untouched but for a few in and out marks. I own an HJ that was veteran acquired that the vet "found" in a factory on a shelf and the motto is perfect but its on the reverse. He said there were parts everywhere but this was the only complete knife he found. that makes me opine it was recognized as an erronious production and set aside as I think wittmann's SA probably was.

This HJ however shows signs of wear, shaprening and use. The scabbard is the copper rivet one runner variety with very think leather. The HJ itself is very heavy, has the early pattern grips, brass rivets and an early deep red HJ diamond. The RZM circle is a double as opposed to the single open circle RZMs I saw on the 2 similarily marked SAs I examined over the years. the veteran was a 29th division vet who went in on D+3 ad stayed until February of 46. Sadly he had passed on and I nver had the opportunity to speak to him about the knife to determine if he was the one who used it or found it that way.
I think there is a simple explanation for its existence but I also believe it is an ultra rare marking. I have spoken with numerous dealers and none has ever seen one. That alone doesn't mean much but with their pickers and networks it means rarety to me.

torino · Joined: 15 Nov 2007 Posts: 10

Let me clarify, when I say veteran acquired I mean to say the veterans estate sale where his neices and nephews sold the contents of his house. I also picked up a nice 1916 Artillary Luger at the sale with the capture paper and they gave me his discharge papers..

The Thicket · Joined: 17 Jul 2007 Posts: 86 Location: Right Here.

I agree with you when an item is not like the mass; it becomes RARE and unique. Thus its value is much higher than a standard like item.

As we now better understand the hobby in not just the vien of varaitions, but rare makers, unique etch's, etc. the list gose on and on.

Such as a RZM 7 29 SS dagger with the ! after the motto try and find one for under $5500.00 in collectable condition, just 10 years ago they were $1500.00. And if it has a JACOBS trademark, then just double the $5500.00; if one can even be found..

Or a VOOS etched Luft or Heer with a REAL period applied Ivory grip in collectable condition for under $10,000.00.. Where as 10 years ago these sold for just $2200.00.

HJ Knifes are a collectable onto them selfs, and have many unique varaitions that can be acquired, as in one could spend 30 ++ years building a collection of just HJ Knifes..

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