fakes ?

Dave · Joined: 14 Mar 2008 Posts: 70

Hello if you see a known fake for sale as original on here should we post it? Thank you .

Combat Relics · Joined: 14 Jul 2007 Posts: 161

If you see something you are CERTAIN is bad, please E-mail Bob (the owner of the site) and he will decide whether to remove the item.

Many pictures are not very good, and there are many things in the market that have varying opinions about them.

Something might not appear to be exactly the pattern, which another guy thinks is right. That does not always a piece bad.

Despite the collector's desire for cookie cutter perfection, and the exact model 'In the book', There were many millions of items not made to specifications, and the community cannot document every variation for certain.

Being judge, jury and censors is not what the site is about, but we do want to eliminate as much garbage as we can!

This site facilitates buyers and sellers coming together to deal. It is not a nanny, here to take care of uninformed, ignorant, or lazy investors.

This hobby is polluted. It is a fact, and it cannot be denied. Everyone here should ONLY buy things that they are competent to collect.

The seller should provide good photos and some description and clear terms of agreement for the buyer. To be fair, the seller also should give a return privilege/satisfaction guarantee. If a person gets a piece and does not like it, a return is reasonable.

The collector should communicate, and assure himself of the particulars of the transaction and carry through responsibly and in a timely fashion. The buyer too bears a responsibility to be competent to collect in this field. Altering an item in any manner should cancel any return privilege.

(One fellow took off the SS Shoulder straps and tried to return a tunic with replica straps! He is gone from the site forever)

Unlike other forums, this site has no old boy network of self appointed experts with their private agendas.

Instead of making the main focus endless public debate, the slandering of people, damaging reputations and squabbling, this is simply a place to find things or list things you have to dispose of.

How everybody functions is up to them. We are all adults after all.

Dave · Joined: 14 Mar 2008 Posts: 70

Hello you have made some good points . But I have already seen alot of fakes and fantisy stuff for sale on here . I have read were people have got taken by some of this stuff. But as you already said I would like this forum to be a place were we dont just slam each other . As on some other forums. If any one would like a second opinion on some thing I would be glad to help. I would also like to say that some of this stuff is way over priced . I know if it is over priced just dont buy it . I am just trying to help. This is a new forum and it would be awfull to see it go the way some others have.

The Thicket · Joined: 17 Jul 2007 Posts: 96 Location: Right Here.

To address the issue of overpriced items, Whos to say something is overpriced. Whats a deal to one person is overpriced to the next. Insults as well as lacking of understanding complexity of an area within a hobby hardly paves the way to understanding of price structure.

So who is right?

In a perfect world everything would be perfect, we can agree that the world is far form perfect. So based on that factor, price then becomes what is within reason to the buyer.

This is all logical, nothing is over priced, nor over hyped as some persons lay claim to.
Sure it would be nice if it were 1964 and a SS chained dagger was still only $2.00, lets be real those days are long gone.

Yes, I do recall the day I could buy 100 items outside a gun show and all from REAL WW II veterans for no more than $200.00 back in 1975. These days are long gone.

So we come back to the fact that its now 2008, there is something called an internet, or world wide web, where people can find just about anything they want. These items can be found at all kinds of prices, as in prices for like items can range from 10% to 50% for the same item. No one is holding your feet to the fire to buy anything.

As an adult and collector its your choice to buy what you can afford. If I wish to sell something that took me 30 years to find for TOP DOLLAR, and hold out for that money, thats my purgative, its as well your purgative to keep looking or - to put your money where your mouth is if its something you really want.

I know I have bought items that I felt I paid a lot for, I found that over the years, these items have all made money. Lets face it the first SS chained dagger I bought for $2.00 was a lot of money on JUNK when I got it in 1964. I bet no one would who knows the market would find a $8000.00 price tag for the same dagger today out of line. I know when I sold it 8 years ago for $2500.00, the person who bought it was complaining about how much it cost, I noted he sold it a few months back for $8500.00, so lets see I had it for 36 years and made a few bucks, he had it for 8 years and made twice what I did, as in $6000.00 in 8 years. Was he wrong, was I wrong, was the new buyer wrong?

So will that dagger be worth $10.000.00 next year? Will it be worth $12,000.00 next year, who knows, I have never seen prices go down
after 45 years.
Keeping in mind that world wide web, how many more people will get involved with the hobby in the next 10 years? How many items will grow in values that todays collectors think are crazy money now to what the prices may be then.

As in what you may think is overpriced is really the deal of a lifetime, you just can't see the forest through the trees. Do you see my point?

Dave · Joined: 14 Mar 2008 Posts: 70

I just meant that the prices on here are twice what they are on other forums or other dealer sites. Not that prices are to high every were.

The Thicket · Joined: 17 Jul 2007 Posts: 96 Location: Right Here.

Dave,
I understand what your saying, as well I see the other side of the coin, prices are what they are. Example I put an item on a fourm for sale at what I felt was very reasonable, I placed the price at $600.00.
I recieved no less than 10 emails explaing what an ass I was for placing such a price on an item that I felt was a little below market value.

I sold the item to a fellow from an other forum for $600.00, he sold it on that forum for $900.00 in two days.

So was I over priced? Was he over priced? Or was his price right?

Example, I placed a beautiful M 42 SD helment - 95% condition that was 100% unplayed with, Price I posted, $890.00. Again, I was sent many emails telling me how stuipd I was.
Yet that same helmet I sent off to a fellow that held an estate auction with a few Nazi items. That same helmet sold to a collector, for $1350.00 plus 10% commission, thats $130.00 more so now its $1485.00 - Plus tax 7% now that same helmet sold for over $1500.00.
So was I stupid? Was the collector who paid that much wrong?

Most of us who have been in this hobby for longer than 30 years have seen it all, we know who all the players are. We also know prices on said players sights and forums.
I feel the prices on this sight, are fair market value and in many case's bloody give aways.

Again; many can't see the forest through the trees.. And thats ok, it takes time in this hobby to grasp that what you pay today = profit on your investment in a few years. The key is it takes years to make that profit. Not a few weeks or months.

There is a differance between a collector and a dealer, the dealer wants the lowest price, the collector wants what he wants at any price. Thats why there are dealers.

So again you see there are two sides to every coin.

Dave · Joined: 14 Mar 2008 Posts: 70

Ive been there to. I supose not every forum is going to be the same . I hope no. Thats one reason I came here. So on we go what about the fakes and repos that we see listed on here. I have seen a few known fakes already. I should just probably just go on about my own buissnes. But it just botheres me some times to see this kind of stuff. Its nothing new I guess we all feel like that some times. I can see your point about dealers vr collecter . I have done both. I have payed alot for some items just because thats what I was looking for.

The Thicket · Joined: 17 Jul 2007 Posts: 96 Location: Right Here.

Dave, thus far this sight has been very good to its members, no one casting any stones like what happens on some forums. By the way please do keep in mind that the forums you noted have sponsors, with that in mind, how many FAKES let alone complete reworks are infact passed off as just fine.
When someone brings such a point up, they are trashed by the CON sensus of dealers and collectors / experts, who are in whats been noted as the Good Old Boys Club.

That being said, I will bring just one example to the table. I sold an item to a fellow who sent the item to one of the GOBC, who wrote the following; This is a totaly reworked item, its not worth what you paid, get your money back.
Now skip forward just 2 years, this item was for sale on said GOBC members web sight with the following text; This is the best example to be found.
Please Keep in mind, that the item was sold at a loss by myself after it was trashed. Yet the item listed on GOBC web sight was listed at a very sweet profit. Odd how when its not one of the GOBC members items, its at best a reworked, yet when its theirs its GOLD.

If you know something is a fake then just don't buy it. Thats the best answer I can give you.

Please do keep in mind, its the collectors demand for items that they can never own that drives the fake market.

Dave · Joined: 14 Mar 2008 Posts: 70

Thats true . Thats just the way it has wallways been. It is up to each of us to learn and know what we are buying. We shouldnt just slam each other on here .

The Thicket · Joined: 17 Jul 2007 Posts: 96 Location: Right Here.

Dave, I agree that its best to act as Gentleman, rather than the child like behavior displayed on so many forums. Saddly these same persons who act in such a manor also reduce the hobbies growth, as anyone with money really does not want to get involved with a horrd of spoiled children.

Bob Treend · Site Admin Joined: 01 Jul 2007 Posts: 91

Glad to see the forum is being used in the way it was intended. Keep the ball rolling you guys!

As to the never ending problem of fakes..... You members have no idea how many fakes are posted on our site, simply because I remove them before most of you see them. Just this morning I had to delete an ad from a Pakistani manufacturer trying to push his junk. And yesterday this character from Canada (nothing against Canada) posted about 20 items, all fakes, all removed as soon as I saw them. As soon as I seen them I delete them.

This brings to mind another thing. I have asked numerous times for help in weeding out the fakes. I regret to say that only one member has been or any real help in this endeavor. I don't pretend to know everything and there are areas of the hobby that I am not qualified to judge. So unless I know ''without a reasonable doubt'' that something is fake, and if no one emails me about it, I let it stand.

It was mentioned that some people were ''taken'' with bad items on our site. This is interesting, because I never hear anything from these people. If the items were bad, why did they buy them to begin with? If they found out they were bad after buying them, then I wonder why they didn't do their homework before purchasing??? And I also wonder why they don't email me about the problem so I might be able to help. The bottom line is that I think most of these stories are just that, stories. I suspect very few collectors have been cheated by our members.

And finally, before I get off my soap box, there is the issue of prices. I read something here (don't remember the exact words) to the effect that our web site was expensive and that prices were too high here. Come on people! Get your head screwed on straight. How can our site be too expensive when we don't sell any thing? It's the members who set the prices, not our web site, we just provide a good place to list the stuff.

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