Great Website

gloworm · Joined: 16 Jul 2008 Posts: 3

I would just like to say that this is a great site and I have bought and sold many items here and all my transactions have been trouble free.

Bob has done a great job with this site, thank you. Laughing

I would however like to ask sellers to be open to shipping internationally, there are a great deal of pieces I would have like to have purchased but was unable to because people are scared to ship abroad.

As long as you have tracked shipping with insurance you will have no problems.

With regard to payment, I suggest paypal as the easiest and safest method. As long as the buyer has a verified account and the address you ship to is confirmed it is a 100% safe.

Combat Relics · Joined: 14 Jul 2007 Posts: 161

Also there is MONEYGRAM or for a bit more in the way of fees, there is WESTERN UNION.

For some reason people have been given the impression (By ePay who OWNS PayPal) that these are risky.

Look, you send a payment to a guy. The risk is always whether the person you paid will transact honorably. It is not that the company will do something wrong.

PayPal may be good in many ways, but for many people it is problematic.
Search paypalsucks for accounts of problems, lawsuits and issues that have actually occurred.

I am not saying do not use the service, I am saying be fully informed. Know what all possible ramifications are.

gloworm · Joined: 16 Jul 2008 Posts: 3

The only time paypal is probematic is if people do not follow the guidelines I have listed above.

The buyer and seller are protected by paypal if these steps are followed where as with moneygram and western union the buyer has no protection, as a buyer who does not recieved the goods there is nothing you can do, you have lost the money.

Paypal will put the sellers account on hold until proof of postage with tracking number can be produced, and if it cannot, the buyer is given a refund.

Combat Relics · Joined: 14 Jul 2007 Posts: 161

And if some shyster/crook, orders an item from a seller and receives it just fine, ....and it is a real item with no problems whatsoever...

the buyer can still make a claim of any sort of wrongdoing by the seller, get the seller's account frozen and the money refunded to himself.

Then, he can keep the item and the money, and go on his merry way. Paypal does not enforce anything be done to resolve the issue. And the seller is up to his neck in hours of frustrating chaos trying to figure out how to resolve it all.

So again, if you want to go into a relationship with PAYPAL, and believe everything will always be rosy and happy happy Joy Joy, just totally ignore the real horror stories of those who lived the nightmare.

No Paypal for me...EVER!

Here is older stuff found online about that service. There is much more today.. at least 2 years after I found this!

Here is a lot of stuff that can be found easily on the internet, and there is so much more. Some of this may be old news. I cannot guarantee the accuracy and I do not state that anything here is factual. It may be fantasy or lies for all I know. I thought it prudent to avoid a company which has this stuff written about it. I just reckon that all this must be there for some reason.

Found on ebay...Yes, I R E A D the entire auction when I am bidding!
Meet the seller
Seller: ebaayismylife ( 1127

Paypal Payments: Sorry I do not accept paypal. Paypal is a joke. They do nothing to protect sellers. Paypal is all about the buyers. When they say on their home page that paypal is the safe way to pay they are right. I have been screwed many times using paypal. I sold a item recentley where I had insurance was optional and the responsiblity of the buyer to purchase it. The buyer did not buy it and the item come broken. He then files a not as described paypal claim against me saying that since the item came damaged that it was not as described. Paypal found in his favor. Paypal says in their not as described terms that it does not cover if you are simply disapointed in the item but I guess it covers damaged goods. I then had a guy pay with a unconfirmed address. I ship the item then he does a chargeback on his credit card. Paypal takes the money out of my account and refunds it to him. I lost the money and the item. I called paypal and they told me I was not protected because I shipped to unconfirmed address. Their exact words were 'we're not going to tell you how to run your business'. If you want to ship to unconfirmed address that is your business. Paypal should not let anyone register with a unconfirmed address.. First off the person with the unconfirmed address is the one who is being sly and shady by not confirming their address and paypal will take their side. I also had a buddy sell a very expensive toy which was mint in the box and accepted payal. The buyer filed a not as described paypal claim and paypal found in his favor. The buyer then shipped him back a empty box with delivery comfirmation. Paypal did nothing because tracking number on empty box showed it delivered. Paypal will do notihng to help you. As soon as the buyer files a claim against a seller paypal will go into your account and put a hold on your money and you will not have access to it for over a month. That should be against the law as far as I'm concerned. Paypal is not classified as a 'real' bank so they don't have to abide by us banking laws which is the reason they can go into your paypal account and lock up your money and issue refunds without your consent. All it would take for paypal to clean up its act would be for about 1 million people to stop using paypal. Just like a abusive husband, paypal does all this simply becuase they can get away with it knowing sellers will continue using them. Paypal plays on the misconception that sellers feel they have to accept paypal in order to make sales. Well I do not need paypal. Check my past auctions and see if I need paypal
.........................................
I received this by email , Unsolicited, From a paypal user, his story, offered to me, and for you to read!
..........................................
Thanks for the info.
I began to suspect PayPal's manipulation tactics when I was stiffed by a seller, and when I
started a complaint, the page 'puked'; and said to try later. After about 3 days of this, I threw
in a known good item number and it came right up. The bad sale again 'puked' the page.
About an hour into searching, I found the customer service number, and I think I scared them a
little with my computer and networking knowledge, so they opened up a complaint manually for me.
It did take a 20 minute wait on hold for a 'supervisor', however.

Big deal, the seller was a deadbeat, and although PayPal 'judged'; in my favor, there is no way
to recover the funds spent in this 'safe' way.

My dad always said, get taken once, shame on them. Get taken again, shame on you.

Thanks again for the quick comeback.

jm (the network guy)

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Subject: You TRUST Paypal ? ...... well, it is just your MONEY at risk !

For the innocent who may become victims, I send some useful information.

I often find that people refuse to believe this stuff about paypal. Sheep will be sheared, it is a fact of life.

I guess the question should be, &quot;Why would these people go to the trouble and expense to tell this story if not true?&quot;

These are a small group of literally hundreds of sites warning of
terrible problems paypal involvement has caused for people just like us!
http://www.paypalwarning.com/

http://suepaypal.org/horror_story.htm

http://dan.tobias.name/thenet/paypal/

http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?p=Paypal+Locked+my+Account

http://www.lowendmac.com/macdan/02/0403ek.html

http://consumeraffairs.com/online/paypal_02.html

http://www.quibbling.net/archives/000565.html

http://www.paypalsucks.com/

http://www.paypalwarning.com/ notice the million and a half visitors
to this site!!!

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,90404,00.asp

http://www.aboutpaypal.org/
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
If after reading some or all of the above sites, you still want me to

use paypal, please do not bid on my auctions.
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Paypal is not a bank and is not FDIC insured.

Thousands of Verified Paypal accounts are currently frozen.

Your account can be frozen for a number of reasons. It is vital you read Pay
Pals terms and conditions very carefully. The most common being a higher
than usual sum being deposited into your account or that you use a foreign
email address.

Once frozen the account owner is required by Pay Pal to fax lengthy and
intrusive private information - several times over. Even then, the account
may not be released. The account can usually receive money while it is
frozen, but it certainly cannot make any withdrawal of any amount of money.

Merchants finding themselves on the wrong end of a frozen Paypal account
will still have to find some way to pay their obligations and fill orders
for the weeks and months while the account is restricted.

A domino effect occurs when a merchant's account is frozen, leaving them
with no means to fill orders. Those orders are then disputed by customers,
creating more chargebacks and the illusion of fraudulent activity on the
part of the merchant.

While anyone paying into the Paypal system with a credit card does still
have the protection of their own bank by disputing the transaction to create
a &quot;chargeback&quot;, Paypal will eventually insist that a customer begins
depositing money through their checking account. This will eventually prove
to be a mistake as all chargeback protection through a credit card is then
lost, leaving the customer at the mercy of Paypal.

Anyone experiencing these Paypal nightmares could always threaten to sue
them, but that may be difficult at best. A thorough reading of the Paypal
terms of service will reveal that you cannot even sue them should you have a
legitimate claim. Their terms of service make it very hard to sue them!
There have been several class-action lawsuits filed against Paypal.

Fraud seems to run rampant on the Paypal system. Merchants doing business
through Paypal are simply not given any of the same tools to identify
fraudulent transactions that real credit card merchants enjoy, yet they seem
to take even more risk. Paypal is quick to chargeback transactions months
after the fact, for seemingly any reason.

Any Paypal customer with a problem typically has an impossible time calling
and talking to a real live person, and personal attention to electronic mail
is virtually non-existent.

According to Vince Sollitto (PayPal spokesman), Paypal intentionally makes
the phone number very difficult to find in order to save costs. This is
fine, except their Email &quot;customer service&quot; also leaves a lot to be desired.

Many times you will get a canned response that doesn't address your initial
Email message, if you get a reply at all. It doesn't do any good to
complain anyway. When asked about customer complaints, Sollitto said the
company reads them, but takes them with a grain of salt.

None of this is very surprising when you consider that Paypal, Inc. publicly
admits &quot;we have limited experience in managing and accounting accurately for
large amounts of customer funds.&quot; Their Email &quot;customer service&quot; is also
outsourced to a company in New Delhi, India.

Additionally, regulatory authorities in three states (California, Idaho and
Louisiana) are investigating whether PayPal, Inc. is engaged in a banking
business because of their customers' ability to retain a balance for future
transfers.

Because Paypal is not licensed as a bank, they are not permitted to engage
in a banking business! (Source, IPO Prospectus) Louisiana has already
ordered Paypal to stop doing business in the state.

This could spell REAL trouble for anyone with funds &quot;deposited&quot; in
Paypal.com! Paypal also recently shelled out $200,000 to the NY Attorney
General and has agreed to stop service to NY gamblers.

Simply put... PayPal is a horrible service.

It's loaded with website problems, demands too much personal information,
and has zero customer service if something goes wrong (you will never find a
phone number where you can talk to a live person).

Your checking account, and all your money, can be &quot;frozen&quot; for no reason (a
MAJOR problem) and it can take weeks to straighten out the simplest problem.
Sellers are running away from PayPal in droves. And the problems have only
gotten worse since Ebay bought them last year.

Last December, PayPal was down for 4 days after a programming problem
occurred. PayPal debit cards were also affected by the outage, the company
confirmed. One Powerseller said his PayPal card was rejected at the post
office, so he was unable to mail his shipment of eBay orders.

Even when PayPal went back online, buyers and sellers had a horrible time
reconciling their records and verifying whether payments had been made.

Users have turned to the courts in the past over eBay and PayPal problems.
In July, eBay users sued eBay over billing glitches, which are still not
resolved according to users.

Users filed a class-action lawsuit against PayPal in 2002 over poor customer
service issues and the closing of accounts without notice. The parties
reached a settlement this July, requiring PayPal to pay out $9.25 million
into a settlement fund that must also pay for administrative costs and
plaintiffs' lawyer fees.

And I won't even get started on their fees.

Besides all of that though...PayPal won't be around long once all of the
Federal and individual/class action lawsuits filed against them hit the
courts.

Personal checks and money orders have never been a problem for me, that's
why they are my preferred form of payment.

Cash is pretty safe in the mail too, after all nobody knows it is there in a sea of mail.

OK I Know you think it is all some conspiracy theory...
are all of these stories (all links from only one website!) Just one paranoid and vengeful person with a lot of time on his hands?

GIMME A BREAK.

dd
Free Merchant Account
d

PayPal Horror Stories

Beware of PayPal
PayPal Steals Money
PayPal Account Hijacked
Virus Alert
Fraudulant Charge Back
PayPal Ruined My Life
Can't Find PayPal Contact Info
Stolen Account/Fraudulant Funds
PayPal Scam
PayPal Fraud
BBB?
PayPal Does Not Care
PayPal Password Scam
PayPal Took Our Payroll
Where's My Merchandise
Selling On Ebay
PayPal Won't Admit Mistake
PayPal Password Hacked
PayPal Subscribers Beware
PayPal Refused To Refund
PayPal Owes Me Money
PayPal Lockdown
Can't Shut Down Account
PayPal Ripped Me Off
PayPal's Bogus Policy
PayPal Held My Money
PayPal Froze My Funds
Real Bad Taste Using PayPal
Hijacked By PayPal
Bank Numbers Locked
PayPal Is Frustrating
PayPal Does Not Follow Rules
PayPal Conversion Scam
PayPal Fraudulant Charge
PayPal's A Big Fraud
PayPal Took Me For A Ride
PayPal Claim Scam
PayPal Did Nothing To Help Me
PayPal Froze My Account
Why Is My Account Still Frozen
PayPal Destroyed My Business
PayPal Failed To Contact Me
PayPal Blocked Me Out
PayPal Malicious Prosecution
PayPal Is So Unfair
Losing Business To PayPal
My Claim Was Denied By PayPal
Purchased an I-Pod for Xmas
PayPal Took My Money
PayPal Did Not Cancel Account
PayPal Is Holding My Money
PayPal Will Not Transfer Funds
PayPal Closed My Case
PayPal Locked My Account Too
PayPal Accused Me Of Fraud
PayPal Big Money Transaction
PayPal Affiliated With Ebay
PayPal Credit Card Chargeback
PayPal Complaint Bandwagon
Unfair PayPal Kept My $$$
PayPal Sucks
PayPal, How Could this Happen
PayPal Account Blocked
New PayPal Virus Alert
PayPal Business Problem
PayPal Took $1,200 From Us
PayPal USPS Mess
PayPal Credit Card Issue
PayPal Request DENIED
PayPal Tried To Get Me
PayPal Fraud Payment
How To Access PayPal
People Added To My Account
Another PayPal Victim
My Personal PayPal Nightmare
PayPal Took Back Money
Bill Pay
PayPal Allows Fraud
I'm A Victim Of PayPal
PayPal Is Holding $9,752.59
PayPal Is Holding $7,000
PayPal Bank Account Change
PayPal And Ebay Watergate
Customer Sent Item To PayPal
PayPal Is Holding $30,000
PayPal Attacks Legit Users
PayPal Fraudulent Foreigners
Incorrect PayPal Refund
Cancellation Of PayPal
PayPal Held $3,200 For 1 Year
PayPal Closed My Entire Family
Be Careful Selling Outside the U.S.
Fraud Enabled By PayPal
PayPal Limited Account Access
PayPal Froze Account For 180 Days
PayPal Scammed Me
Fraud Email Message
PayPal Is Not Safe And Secure
Provide PayPal Info Over Phone
I'm Out $452.92
No More PayPal
PayPal's Excessive Permission
Bounced A Check
Another Possible Fake PayPal Email
PayPal Fraud Allowance
Unauthorized PayPal Transactions
PayPal Does Not See the Truth
PayPal Account Locked
PayPal Stole My Money
Potential PayPal Email Hoax
PayPal /Ebay Allow Fraud
Bounced A Check
PayPal Froze $600
PayPal Email Hoax
PayPal House of Horrors
PayPal Blocked Account
PayPal Scam E-mail
PayPal Direct Debit Checking
No Explanation Whatsoever
PayPal Closes Claim
PayPal And Ebay
Burden Of Proof
Fraudulent Access
PayPal Stole My Roomates Money
PayPal Took $5,050 Out Of Account
PayPal's Not Worth It
Do Not Sell Overseas
Ebay Pushed PayPal
PayPal Sellers Scam
PayPal Limited Account
I Was Scammed
PayPal Is Not Our Friend
PayPal Account Still Locked
PayPal Fraud Email
Ebay Seller Scammed Me
Trojan Horse Virus
No Help From PayPal
Your Account Can Be Suspended
eBay Is Just As Bad
Over $9,000 held by PayPal
Frustrating Experience With PayPal
PayPal Phishing Email
PayPal Froze My Tuition Money
Ebay Phishing Email
PayPal the Real Scammers
PayPal Is Holding $20,000
Another PayPal Phishing Email
PayPal Buyer Protection Insurance
Do Not Sell Overseas
Fraud on Ebay Using PayPal
PayPal Froze My Account
PayPal Let My Acct Get Hacked
Seller Hazards on eBay and PayPal
PayPal 4 Accounts Locked
Sellers Warning To Buyers
PayPal Ripped Me Off
PayPal Froze My Account
PayPal Is Terrible
PayPal Unfair To Sellers
PayPal Aids Ripoff Artist
PayPal Is Holding $2,000
$1,000 Gone From My Account
Ebay Problems
How To Spot A Fake PayPal Email
PayPal Froze My Account
PayPal Requires Proof Of Shipping
PayPal Seller Cheated Me
Ebay and PayPal Are All About Money
I thought PayPal Was Professional
Scammed On PayPal
Fraudulant Transaction
Fraudulant Charges Due To PayPal
Bank Account Cleaned Out
$1,200 chargeback
Buyer's Blackmail Using PayPal
PayPal SSL Connection Failed
Funds Frozen For No Reason
Contact Seller/Buyer Directly
Collecting Money From PayPal
Account Unfrozen After Credit Card Charged
PayPal Buyer Complaint
Ebay Scam Email
Chargeback Result
Scam Artist Chargeback
PayPal Locked My Account
Suspended Without Reason
PayPal Created A Debt
PayPal Refunded the Customer
Updating My Information
A PayPal Fiasco
Ideas For the Future
My PayPal Nightmare
My Account Was Hacked
PayPal Holding Money Captive
PayPal Is Very Wrong
My Account Is Restricted
PayPal Ban For Life
PayPal Has Frozen My Account
Credit Card Capable
Screwed Hard By PayPal
Waste Of Time And Money
Ripped Off through PayPal
No Longer Use Ebay
PayPal Ruined My Business
Using Stolen Credit Cards
Payment With No Account
No End Of Trouble
Hacker Got Into PayPal
I Won't Go Away
Is this PayPal Fraud
PayPal Unauthorized Funds
PayPal Robbed Me
Refusing To Reimburse Funds
PayPal's Unfair Policy
PayPal Error Cost Me Money
Suspicious About this Offer
PayPal Nightmare Not Over
PayPal Froze My Money
the FBI And PayPal
Bogus Email Confirmation
Ripped Off And Hanging
Funds Back To Buyer
PayPal Ruined the Business
PayPal Buyer Assurance Scam
PayPal Overdrew My Account
those PayPal thieves
Is this Email Legit
Buyer Protection Allows Fraud
Ripped Off By Crooks
Will PayPal Unlock Accounts
Won't Back Up Promises
I Need Some Help
Different then Described
Help With PayPal Problem
Someone Used My Info
New Security Requirements
I'm A PayPal Destroyer
Different Computers Logged In
PayPal With Reverse Deposits
Making their Own Rules
Process Serving Agent
Must Beware Of PayPal
PayPal Also Closed Account
PayPal Account Is Frozen
PayPal And Criminal Trouble
Don't Ever Use PayPal
Removing Account Altogether
Ebay Payment Deception
New PayPal Trojan
PayPal Corporate Scum Bags
Seller Told To Refund
Another PayPal Scam
I Am Being Scammed
Ebay Rejected My Password
Fraudulent Format File Scam
PayPal Won't Investigate
Out Of Date Lawsuit
A Kitten through PayPal
Complete Insensitivity
California Email Scam
Unauthorized Account Use
Multiple Email threats
A PayPal Investigation
Two Weeks Too Late
Unable To Make Purchase
Another Victim Of PayPal
Accessing My Bank Account
Fraud Email Received
PayPal Took Money Away
PayPal Account Closed
PayPal Customer Service
I'll Be Suing PayPal
Suspicious Buyer Behavior
What To Do With PayPal
PayPal Limited My Account
thought It Wouldn't Happen
Negative PayPal Balance
Holding Us Accountable
Ebay Fraud Alert
My PayPal Horror
I'm Now In Debt
Charges To My Account
PayPal Breaks the Law
Sent Collection Notice
Purchase Dissatisfaction
Account Put Under Limit
PayPal Denied Ebay Access
Pay Scamming Pal
Maddening Customer Service
Disputed A Charge
Attack On Scammers
Copy Of My Email
PayPal Is A Big Scam
Don't Trust PayPal
this Is PayPal Hell
Charging For Protection
Need My Money Back
Second Hand Troubles
Received this Email
Fraudulent Account Used
Can I Counter Sue
Don't Have An Account
Horror Stories Are Real
PayPal Money Reversal
PayPal Simply Robbed Me
PayPal Supports Fraud
Will Never Use PayPal
PayPal Complaints Process
PayPal Chargeback Fraudulent
Bloody PayPal Bastards
Never Received the Product
Two Fake Emails
PayPal Never Returns Emails
PayPal Tried To Steal
Inaccessible Funds
Colonoscopy Procedure
PayPal Late Fees
PayPal Having Me Arrested
I Need Some Help
this Is Poor Management
PayPal Policy Enables Fraud
PayPal's Evil Tactics
PayPal Double Whammy
Screwed Over By PayPal
PayPal Scam Artist
New Emails Added
Who Is Emailing Me
I Was PayPal Scammed
Here Is An Email Scam
PayPal Accounts Hijacked
Dangerously Irresponsible
Jerked My Refunds
Restricted My Account
PayPal Froze thousands
Payment Reversals
A Living Nightmare
Hundreds Stolen From PayPal
Insult Added To Injury
PayPal Holding My Money
Do Not Use PayPal
Feeling Like A Criminal
Getting Rich Off PayPal
PayPal's Slow Refunds
In Scammer's Favor
PayPal Is A Scam
Absurd Alert
they Ripped Me Off
PayPal Account Blocked
PayPal Access Limited
Money Back Guarantee
How True It Is
A Fake PayPal Email
*****PayPal Fraud Alert*****
PayPal Permanently Locked Account
Is PayPal Needed?
How PayPal Makes Money With Your Money
PayPal Terms of Use
Calling all Lawyers
Demanding Damages
Recovery of Funds
Credit Card Machines
PayPal
PayPal Payments &amp; Online Shops
PayPal &amp; Online Sales
Do You Want to Invest in PayPal?
Taking PayPal to Court
PayPal Sued
PayPal Class Action Suit
California Class Action Suit against Paypal
San Francisco Class Action Suite (PayPal)
Florida Attorney for PayPal Victims
PayPal Case Reports
Ebay Tries To Bully Paypalwarning.com
PayPal Settles For $225,000

gloworm · Joined: 16 Jul 2008 Posts: 3

Well Each to their own....

I have used paypal for 6 years now and found that as long as you are honest in your description of the item you will have no problems.

In 6 years I have never had a problem.

The Thicket · Joined: 17 Jul 2007 Posts: 96 Location: Right Here.

As a real person who lost over $3500.00 to Pay Pals LIES, I can say that they are with out question impossible to deal with! My money went to an off shore account held by a guy who was in Prison. No way to get back the money, what can you do about a guy in prison? Not much!

Your luck will run out, when it does - you can't say that no one ever told you.

By the way the dealers are at risk too, as in; all a buyer has to do is claim you sent them a fake, guess what? You loose all the way the buyer gets his money back, you get nothing, as pp tells the buyer to destroy your item no matter what, be it right / wrong or what ever, you get NO SAY in the matter at all.

PP has NO rules to follow like a real Merchant account would have as in they are no bound by any laws. So they are ROUGES. Once you agree to their terms your hooked and have no say.

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